Pop Culture Happy Hour : NPR

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LINDA HOLMES, HOST:

When “Mission Runway” launched in 2004, aggressive actuality exhibits have been of their infancy. Now, they’re of their mature pantsuit years. However “Mission Runway,” now in its nineteenth season, rolls on.

STEPHEN THOMPSON, HOST:

Longtime mentor Tim Gunn has been changed by former winner Christian Siriano. However the stitching machines proceed to buzz, and it is nonetheless exhausting to make a gown in a day. I am Stephen Thompson.

HOLMES: And I am Linda Holmes. On this encore episode of NPR’s POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR, we’re speaking about “Mission Runway.”

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HOLMES: Welcome again. You simply met NPR Music’s Stephen Thompson. Additionally with us is Glen Weldon of the NPR Arts Desk. Hello, Glen.

GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: Hello, Linda.

HOLMES: And in our fourth chair right now, we’re all the time delighted to have with us author Kat Chow. Hello, Kat.

KAT CHOW, BYLINE: Hey.

HOLMES: It is so good to have you ever, as all the time. I will begin with you, Glen, and I need to ask you a query. We talked slightly about previous “Runway” versus new “Runway.” How do you’re feeling about new “Runway?”

WELDON: I’m very a lot down with new “Runway” as a result of this present wanted an infusion of one thing. And the sort of one thing it received with these final two seasons is strictly it. I feel towards the tip of the Klum-Gunn period, we have been getting, like, challenges and our-friends-at-Arby’s, you realize? Like, the challenges have been getting…

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THOMPSON: A gown completely made from roast beef.

WELDON: Yeah. It was simply, like, what is going on on right here?

HOLMES: I consider there was a Crimson Robin…

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WELDON: Crimson Robin – that is what I used to be pondering of. OK.

HOLMES: …Infinite fries basket.

WELDON: Yeah. It is like, OK, we’re lacking one thing right here. Nevertheless it’s a method. And also you want the consolation of that method, you simply want to combine it up. One thing so simple as a brand new workroom can sort of make me really feel like, oh, I need to see the place that is going now. And Christian Siriano within the function of the mentor – he appears – possibly simply – it is newness. He simply looks as if a greater mentor, a extra particular mentor, any individual who’s not going to only say, make it work. He’ll…

THOMPSON: He is slightly extra essential, yeah.

HOLMES: Yeah.

WELDON: He is extra essential. He is extra keen to place the designers’ ft to the hearth. And that is simply extra fascinating.

HOLMES: Yeah.

WELDON: So I am in for this.

HOLMES: Yeah. How about you, Kat? What do you consider new “Runway?”

CHOW: So I principally used to observe “Mission Runway” years in the past, and I might additionally watch the spin off, “Fashions Of The Runway.” I began watching once more as a result of I noticed on Twitter that this contestant, Tyler, was form of making the rounds due to a snarky response that he gave to Karlie Kloss. He made a very horrible gown, and she or he stated that she would by no means put on that, or somebody stated that she would by no means put on that. And he goes, not even to dinner on the Kushners’?

HOLMES: Oh, yeah.

WELDON: Yeah.

HOLMES: She stated – she was taking a look at a chunk of vogue, and she or he stated, I would not put on this. And he stated…

CHOW: Not even to dinner on the Kushners’ (laughter)?

HOLMES: As a result of Karlie Kloss is married to Jared Kushner’s brother, so she is linked to the Kushners…

CHOW: Sure.

HOLMES: …And by marriage, marriage, marriage, the Trumps, and all that stuff.

CHOW: So once I noticed this clip on Twitter, I cackled, after which was like, I feel I want to observe this new season to see what’s completely different. And having this be my entree again into “Mission Runway” – as a result of I used to observe. And I could not actually bear in mind what was so completely different, however I simply knew that I truly actually missed Heidi Klum and Tim Gunn. And I simply missed their dynamic. However then I felt that the present itself felt slightly drained to me compared to the brand new spate of vogue actuality exhibits, like “Subsequent In Trend” on Netflix, which I completely love. There’s simply one thing so dynamic. And I do not know if it is truthful to sort of examine these two exhibits, however that was sort of the angle I used to be coming from.

HOLMES: Yeah.

CHOW: I undoubtedly do need to see the brand new present that Heidi and Tim are doing with Amazon…

HOLMES: “Making The Reduce.”

CHOW: …”Making The Reduce” as a result of I feel the enterprise facet that they are making an attempt to push into the present is one thing I am craving from this – it is not a reboot, proper? Nevertheless it’s simply completely different…

HOLMES: Yeah.

CHOW: …A special present utterly.

HOLMES: Yeah. Nicely, and I feel – you realize, our producer, Jessica Reedy, was speaking about how, on the brand new Amazon present, the massive factor goes to be, like, having the ability to promote your garments on Amazon. And one of many central tensions…

THOMPSON: After all.

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HOLMES: However, like, one of many central tensions of “Runway” has all the time been the distinction between, are you making an attempt to make garments that individuals are going to truly purchase…

CHOW: Proper.

HOLMES: …Versus, are you making an attempt to make, like, thrilling garments? And you realize, that is, I feel, one of many issues that carries over. And one of many causes I feel Siriano is such a superb get for them is that he has, like, performed stuff for Payless footwear and stuff like that, but additionally, like, one of the crucial news-making robes of the final a number of years was the Billy Porter tux gown. And that is Christian Siriano. And many truly news-making, actually extremely regarded, high-profile items of vogue have been Siriano. Plus, he comes from the present, so he is aware of the expertise…

WELDON: Yeah.

HOLMES: …Of being on it.

CHOW: Yeah.

HOLMES: What do you assume, Thompson? The place are you on “Runway”?

THOMPSON: Nicely, I am slightly bit in the identical boat that Kat was in. I watched the present fairly religiously for, I might say, 9 or 10 seasons, after which actually drifted away from it. And so for me, coming again to it, I used to be truly stunned, given how a lot turnover there was on the judging panel. It is principally simply Nina Garcia who stays…

CHOW: Love her.

THOMPSON: …From, you realize, OG “Mission Runway.” I used to be amazed at how extremely acquainted it felt, and I imply that in a great way. This can be a present I am not essentially anticipating, like, groundbreaking actuality TV making. I am there for the rhythms. I am there for the truth that actually for in regards to the first 85% of every episode, you possibly can watch on doublespeak…

WELDON: Oh, sure.

THOMPSON: …And actually not miss a complete lot of something. After which they – you get the music and the runway begins and you then’re like, oh, wait, I’ve to lookup on the display. And that is the place you research it intently and also you attempt to apply your, in my case, extremely laughably restricted understanding and information of what appears to be like good and does not. After which you might have the judging and the elimination. And so, for me, like, I like how acquainted it nonetheless feels.

I feel Karlie Kloss is a wonderfully effective stand-in for Heidi Klum. I feel Christian Siriano, as you talked about, Glen, brings one thing new to that Tim Gunn-iness (ph). He has a combination of extra willingness to be essential and the empathy of getting gone by way of the method of doing this present and having this present be a launching pad for him. He’s – he offers you a way of what these designers are aspiring to career-wise and may give them recommendation accordingly. I like, for probably the most half, the brand new judging panel. I feel Brandon Maxwell is a wonderfully good stand-in for, say, Michael Kors. So far as…

HOLMES: However much less bitchy.

WELDON: Much less bitchy.

CHOW: Sure, sure.

HOLMES: Much less bitchy, much less imply.

THOMPSON: Much less making an attempt to get off a superb burn and slightly – feels slightly bit extra pure in his criticism however nonetheless will get to say issues prefer it appears to be like like – what? – a high-fashion diaper.

CHOW: Sure, sure, it did.

THOMPSON: And it actually did. And also you knew instantly which outfit was going to get that tag that they’d promised he was going to say. So I am in. I prefer it. It’s nonetheless feeding what I appreciated in regards to the present to start with, however it does – it feels refreshed with out feeling like one thing aside from itself.

HOLMES: Yeah, I feel for me, the humorous factor is this can be a present – I imply, I need to give tons of credit score to Tim Gunn and Heidi Klum. A few of it’s simply – there’s solely so many notes you’ll be able to hit.

THOMPSON: Completely.

CHOW: Yeah.

HOLMES: And I feel it is simply doing one thing completely different. I feel Tim Gunn was great at being Tim Gunn. He had that form of avuncular, supportive professorial method, which I completely beloved watching. However Siriano, to me, the factor that I actually love about his method – it is true he is extra keen to be essential, however his whole tone has extra of this, like, I would like you to succeed and also you’re killing me, which all the time actually I discover humorous.

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CHOW: So exasperated.

HOLMES: And he’ll say, you are killing me. He’ll say, like, oh, you are killing me with all this tulle. Like, oh, I simply – and he additionally – I like the truth that he loves it when he tells them to not do one thing, they do it anyway, after which they get criticized for it. They’re going to typically present him within the wings being like, I instructed them.

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HOLMES: I like the truth that he has that little little bit of sort of spiciness to his supply. And my transformation on Siriano – like, once I noticed him as a contestant when he was, in equity, very, very younger in Season 4, I actually discovered him sort of bratty and annoying. However over time, he has develop into so – like, such a man that I like a lot, like, not simply due to this but additionally as a result of he is actually embraced working with girls notably, not completely girls however girls on purple carpets who’re, you realize, many alternative ages and physique varieties. And, you realize, he actually has put his cash the place his mouth is by way of that sort of inclusivity, which I respect quite a bit.

CHOW: Yeah.

HOLMES: And I do need to give a shout out to that judging panel, although, as a result of I – like Stephen, I actually like Brandon Maxwell. I like that sort of, look, let me let you know the reality, which has slightly bit much less zing to it however slightly bit extra sort of once more, humane, I am making an attempt to assist. I feel Nina Garcia has held up extremely effectively as a choose on this present.

CHOW: Sure, sure, simply her.

HOLMES: I simply adore – nonetheless adore her. I feel she’s gotten, if something, higher and higher at being a choose on this present. Additionally, Elaine Welteroth, she’s the lady who sort of helped overhaul Teen Vogue into its present sort of actually cool, fascinating political incarnation. I am going to let you know what they have. They have a lineup of judges that manages to be supportive and enthusiastic with out turning into Paula Abdul from early “American Idol.”

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CHOW: Sure, sure. They don’t seem to be, like, saccharine, however they’re nurturing.

HOLMES: It does not really feel like I simply personally love you and that is what it is about. Like, they handle to be supportive, however.

CHOW: Good throwback.

HOLMES: Kat, how are you feeling in regards to the folks on this season?

CHOW: Oh, my gosh. I like seeing the drama of – so there’s this lady named Victoria who simply retains successful over and over and over, and everyone else hates her simply because she’s profitable. But in addition she has some shade that she simply subtly throws in and does not even seem to be she’s conscious of it. However the judges are, quote, unquote, “obsessed” along with her, in keeping with the opposite contestants. And I simply love seeing this dynamic play out as a result of I feel it is actually enjoyable actuality TV. There are simply so many huge personalities on this present. And I’m actually simply drawn to these tensions, particularly additionally Sergio, who…

WELDON: Positive.

HOLMES: Ugh.

THOMPSON: (Laughter).

CHOW: …Everyone loves. Everyone has a Sergio of their life…

WELDON: Yeah.

CHOW: …Which is any individual who loves to speak about – how do I put this?

THOMPSON: Oh, it is so performative.

CHOW: Sure, their performative progressiveness, maybe…

WELDON: Yeah.

CHOW: …Is an efficient method to put it. And…

THOMPSON: Performative progressiveness used as a defend towards…

HOLMES: Towards criticism.

THOMPSON: …Any sort of suggestions.

CHOW: Sure. Sure. Like, there is a dynamic the place Christian Siriano is making an attempt to provide him suggestions early on in one of many episodes on a gown that’s apparently very private to Sergio. And Sergio refuses. And it is simply – it is like, you need to take part within the present in case you’re a contestant. You have to be getting suggestions, is my opinion. However I feel that it is a actually good microcosm into simply the place we’re right now. And so I am actually glad that they’ve forged this form of particular person in it.

THOMPSON: Nicely, they forged huge personalities…

CHOW: Yeah.

THOMPSON: …As you stated, however they did not appear to forged for persona problems. They did not appear to forged precise monsters. So the those who I discover myself rooting towards or the folks whose workforce I’m not on…

CHOW: Sure.

THOMPSON: …Are simply merely self-righteous or merely bratty. They don’t seem to be poisonous or vicious.

HOLMES: Yeah. I am fairly anti-Sergio, although.

WELDON: Yeah.

HOLMES: I am not going to lie (laughter).

THOMPSON: I am very anti-Sergio. However I used to be very anti-Christian Siriano.

HOLMES: Yeah.

THOMPSON: Now, Sergio…

HOLMES: Do not remind me of my inconsistency.

THOMPSON: (Laughter) Nicely, however the factor is, Christian Siriano, when he was on the present, as you stated, Linda, was like 22 or 23. Sergio is 36.

WELDON: Yeah.

HOLMES: Yeah.

CHOW: Yeah.

THOMPSON: And I really feel like Sergio could be much more palatable to me if he have been, like, 22.

HOLMES: Yeah. Sergio received very closely into this factor, as Kat talked about – very closely into this factor, notably for a few episodes, the place all the things needed to have a political story.

CHOW: Sure.

HOLMES: And a few of them have been very overt, proper? Like, a few of them, he did tackle that – he is form of saying, that is about what is going on on on the border. He needed to have the names of a number of individuals who have died in custody on the border, I consider, embroidered into the sting of the gown. However then after that, it appeared like all the things needed to be, this stands for X.

WELDON: Is it me, or have the attitudes of each the contestants and the judges towards the fashions modified? We appear to be getting extra of the contestants and the fashions sort of bonding and seeing the fashions as actual folks in a manner that – again within the early seasons, you realize, Nina would not come out and say, may it flip round, please?

HOLMES: Yeah.

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WELDON: I need to see the again of the gown. However that was that vibe.

HOLMES: Yeah.

WELDON: She was giving off that vibe. And now it appears to me, anyway, that they are extra keen to let these fashions be folks…

HOLMES: Yeah.

WELDON: …Who’re truly contributing in some crucial, very primary manner.

HOLMES: I feel that is true. I feel they have been up and down about that.

WELDON: Yeah.

HOLMES: There have been a pair fashions previously the place it was – do you bear in mind Jeffrey who received, who had the massive neck tattoos?

THOMPSON: Oh, positive.

WELDON: Oh, positive.

HOLMES: He had a really shut relationship with a mannequin named Marilyn. And a variety of the stuff that she did for him was clearly actually serving to him win. I feel I agree with you. They’ve performed that slightly extra. They’ve began to let the fashions sort of have their very own backstory…

WELDON: Proper.

HOLMES: …In some instances…

CHOW: Yeah.

HOLMES: …Not in each case, however in some instances they’ve.

CHOW: They’re selective, yeah.

THOMPSON: Nicely, they usually’ve diversified their pool of fashions a bit, too, the place they do have some completely different physique varieties. You’ve gotten a nonbinary…

CHOW: Yep.

THOMPSON: …Mannequin. You get a way that, like, not each mannequin is created equal. It’s a must to do a certain quantity of tailoring, relying on who you get.

HOLMES: Yeah.

THOMPSON: However I’ve appreciated – as a lot as they’ve tried to allow us to get to know fashions previously, as with issues just like the spinoff, “Fashions Of The Runway”…

CHOW: “Fashions Of The Runway,” yeah.

THOMPSON: This, I feel, threads the needle, so to talk, most successfully.

WELDON: Proper.

CHOW: Yeah, I feel so. And I actually respect how, in a number of the challenges, they seek the advice of the fashions of what they’re comfy carrying. And I feel that is only a very respectful method to gown any individual.

HOLMES: What you aren’t getting is the form of common lady challenges…

THOMPSON: Proper.

HOLMES: …That they used to have…

WELDON: Yeah.

HOLMES: …The place you’ll hearken to some designer go on for a half an hour principally about how a lot they hate dressing fats girls.

CHOW: Yeah.

HOLMES: And to them, a fats lady is any lady who’s not a mannequin. And I did all the time discover these episodes simply agonizing and typically actually, actually sort of triggering.

CHOW: Yeah.

HOLMES: However it’s nonetheless true that you just nonetheless have a variety of designers who present their whole asses each time they’re requested to decorate a girl who has any sort of curvature to her physique in any respect. They usually’ll put them in these sort of, like, bizarre, unflattering – like, typically I feel there’s much less hostility, however the inexperience usually nonetheless exhibits.

CHOW: It exhibits. Sure.

HOLMES: And you may sort of get, like, a factor hanging off.

CHOW: Simply, like, a sack or one thing shapeless. Yeah.

HOLMES: There have been, like, some actually beautiful plus-size fashions previously who’ve, like, walked the runway in these sort of, like, with-a-sheet-wrapped-around-you sort of getups. So I feel the inexperience nonetheless exhibits. However I am glad they’re engaged on it.

We need to know what you concentrate on “Mission Runway.” Discover us at fb.com/pchh and on Twitter at @pchh. That brings us to the tip of our present, and we’ll see you all tomorrow.

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